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Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - Printable Version

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Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - thebornotaku - 12-07-2011 08:40 PM

Right, so, the wagon is fucking loud when going down the road, the stereo sounds like crap and I can hear everything that's happening outside the car clearly. This is annoying. There's some things that I know can be attributed to the car itself (like the shitty trailing arm bushings causing a loud squeak from the back), but the fact remains that there is a LOT of road noise.

So I want to add some sound deadening to the car, probably just on the doors for now and maybe some under the carpet/cargo area later, but first, the doors.

Obviously, Dynamat comes to mind, but it's expensive. Very expensive. $99 for enough mat to cover two doors? Eff that.

I've been doing some reading and there's suggestions ranging from RAAMat, Ensolite and Dynamat all the way down to stuff like Jiffy Seal or Peel n' Seal. The last two certainly seem to work well -- the guy I'm working for on his BMW has about three rolls of the stuff laid out across the car and it's tons quieter than stock -- but they're also asphalt based and I've read about a lot of people cautioning against using them due to the temperatures they can (or rather can't) withstand.

The question here then is what you all suggest for sound deadening. The wagon has no A/C so it has to be able to stand up to fairly hot temperatures during the summer. It can't be wildly expensive but I would be willing to spend anywhere from $75-100 if it meant I got to do all four doors and do them well. I would consider spending more if it was really worth it but I would rather not start straying in to Dynamat territory.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - thebornotaku - 12-08-2011 02:10 AM

Actually as it turns out, Amazon has the Dynamat door kits for $50/ea, they claim one kit does two doors, two kits = $100 which is about what I'm looking to spend. What do you think?


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - dhallilama - 12-08-2011 02:31 AM

i've used "poor man's dynamat" in more than one car over the years...

Peel-N-Seal, from your local Home Depot or Lowes... in the roofing section, usually. it can be had with an aluminum side, sticky as could be bitumen rubber. install just like dynamat and it does a good job. NOT as good as dynamat, but way cheaper and does the job. clean well, degrease, stick the stuff on using a heat gun to form it... works a treat.

i've used it on doors and roofs with good success, save for one experience... a black car in a Las Vegas summer. the stuff on the roof was losing its ability to stay. it was fine in the doors and perfect on the floors.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - badvlvo - 12-08-2011 09:51 AM

Look at Second Skin. Dynamat will peel, flake, melt and do all sorts of stuff over time.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - thebornotaku - 12-08-2011 01:42 PM

(12-08-2011 09:51 AM)badvlvo Wrote:  Look at Second Skin. Dynamat will peel, flake, melt and do all sorts of stuff over time.

Looks good but it's spendy, I can get just about enough Ensolite and RAAMmat BXT II to do a single layer of each for about as much as it would cost to buy a comparable amount of the Second Skin. Got any testimony? Any experience with RAAMmat per chance?


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - badvlvo - 12-08-2011 05:47 PM

I have Second Skin, have used Second Skin and know the owner of Second Skin. His product is great and well worth the money.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - Redwoodchair - 12-10-2011 12:50 PM

I took a lot of dynamat out of my 245 to save weight.
The PO had it everywhere, and doubled up in places.
The 245 is dead quiet compared to the 145's B20 sewing machine sound.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - thebornotaku - 12-10-2011 04:48 PM

(12-10-2011 12:50 PM)Redwoodchair Wrote:  I took a lot of dynamat out of my 245 to save weight.
The PO had it everywhere, and doubled up in places.
The 245 is dead quiet compared to the 145's B20 sewing machine sound.

Replacing the trailing arm bushings quieted it down a LOT, the bastard was squeaking metal on metal over every little bump and everything. I still want to throw some more deadening in the car because there's a lot of road noise, but it's so much nicer now.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - Redwoodchair - 12-10-2011 08:56 PM

Don't go too crazy with it.
Basically it changes the tone of the panel when it vibrates, so a good section in the middle does most of the noise reduction.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - thebornotaku - 12-11-2011 04:44 AM

(12-10-2011 08:56 PM)Redwoodchair Wrote:  Don't go too crazy with it.
Basically it changes the tone of the panel when it vibrates, so a good section in the middle does most of the noise reduction.

The idea was probably going to be cover a decent portion of the outer skin, then cover a few select areas on the inner skin where it won't be blocking access to anything or generally getting in the way. I want to make the car quieter, but I also want to ensure that I don't make maintenance or repairs any harder on myself in the long run. Last thing I want is to have to cut away big chunks of butyl rubber off of my door because my regulator craps out again, or whatever.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - Redwoodchair - 12-11-2011 10:28 PM

A lot of the noise in a wagon comes from the rear end traveling up into the rear cargo / seat area from the pumpkin.
Easy to pull the seat bottom and do that area.
+1 on the bituthene idea dollar for dollar.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - fridgewagon - 12-12-2011 01:14 AM

They get a lot better by 1993. Lots of little things for quiet and wind, water, and general elements/weather/sound proofing. Lots of those parts made to last quite a while longer. Overall though, they were remarkably ghastly quiet when they were young, having had a few of those no mile/mint garaged cars with lots of good maintenance.

Lots of years pounding cracked,broken, undulating CA pavement baking, smashing, and squeezing all the rubber, tar and glue out in the hot sun drying all the plastic and seals out will make for a very loud car.

If possible find a nice wrecked 1993ish and diesel and transfer all the different bits in mint shape when and where possible, and suddenly, that loud, beat down POS tractor volvo that drives like a hunk of junk with a solid tractor motor transforms rather quickly. BTDT. Of course, lots of the rubber and shocks need some serious stage 0 before even worrying about that on most.

Usually the door seals are damaged, early windshield makes noise, sound deadening in the doors is crumpled and curled like a hard potato chip, window scrapers are gone, suspension bushings, shocks, tires are tired out, various mounts, wheel bearings dry or messed up, etc etc. You add it all up and it does really start to approach model T status...the early cars are a bit loud to begin with and don't improve. Even now, I'm starting to see the springs be all smashed down on some real beat CA cars and that makes for kinda lousy ride and driving and noise as they really get old and beat.

You don't need to go crazy or totally reinvent the wheel here. Just fix what needs fixed in a logical order from previous experience/knowledge, buy some stuff for the doors, seal things up a bit and JY some late and diesel parts in good shape. Easily serviced, factory,reliable by volvo standards, no biggie. The factory did pretty good by the end in 1993...couple that with a little maintenance and you should be good and able to do it on a shoestring budget. Sometimes a little hard to find some bits in good shape in CA for rubbers/glues/tar parts, but there are still nice garaged smog failing or wrecked bay area (or otherwise, but that is usually where the money/cooler weather is) cars out there.

What year is yours?


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - Blue245Ti - 12-12-2011 02:01 AM

^James,

His car is an '85. Non-turbo autotragic version of my previous 245 Turbo.

-J


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - thebornotaku - 12-12-2011 05:51 AM

(12-11-2011 10:28 PM)Redwoodchair Wrote:  A lot of the noise in a wagon comes from the rear end traveling up into the rear cargo / seat area from the pumpkin.
Easy to pull the seat bottom and do that area.
+1 on the bituthene idea dollar for dollar.

Part of it is a rattle from the third seat door, gonna fix that and I planned on doing the floor under the rear seat and cargo area eventually too.


(12-12-2011 01:14 AM)fridgewagon Wrote:  They get a lot better by 1993. Lots of little things for quiet and wind, water, and general elements/weather/sound proofing. Lots of those parts made to last quite a while longer. Overall though, they were remarkably ghastly quiet when they were young, having had a few of those no mile/mint garaged cars with lots of good maintenance.

Lots of years pounding cracked,broken, undulating CA pavement baking, smashing, and squeezing all the rubber, tar and glue out in the hot sun drying all the plastic and seals out will make for a very loud car.

If possible find a nice wrecked 1993ish and diesel and transfer all the different bits in mint shape when and where possible, and suddenly, that loud, beat down POS tractor volvo that drives like a hunk of junk with a solid tractor motor transforms rather quickly. BTDT. Of course, lots of the rubber and shocks need some serious stage 0 before even worrying about that on most.

Usually the door seals are damaged, early windshield makes noise, sound deadening in the doors is crumpled and curled like a hard potato chip, window scrapers are gone, suspension bushings, shocks, tires are tired out, various mounts, wheel bearings dry or messed up, etc etc. You add it all up and it does really start to approach model T status...the early cars are a bit loud to begin with and don't improve. Even now, I'm starting to see the springs be all smashed down on some real beat CA cars and that makes for kinda lousy ride and driving and noise as they really get old and beat.

You don't need to go crazy or totally reinvent the wheel here. Just fix what needs fixed in a logical order from previous experience/knowledge, buy some stuff for the doors, seal things up a bit and JY some late and diesel parts in good shape. Easily serviced, factory,reliable by volvo standards, no biggie. The factory did pretty good by the end in 1993...couple that with a little maintenance and you should be good and able to do it on a shoestring budget. Sometimes a little hard to find some bits in good shape in CA for rubbers/glues/tar parts, but there are still nice garaged smog failing or wrecked bay area (or otherwise, but that is usually where the money/cooler weather is) cars out there.

What year is yours?

It's an 85 n/a slow-wagon with an autotragic. Spent 24 years of it's life in Washington.

I'm not looking on doing a complete restoration here -- granted, it does need some attention to the seals and whatnot (and a weld that rusted through on the driver door has the whole window frame rattling around), but I was more thinking in terms of cheap and effective sound deadening, because even most of the 240s I've been in in good condition are still a little noisy. My girlfriend's '92 GL is actually really quiet, especially when compared to my wagon.

I had planned on eventually swapping to the later style windshield and hatch for parts availability and quietness' sake, but that's a ways out.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - nonhog - 03-02-2012 04:51 PM

Just read an article about this subject and they pointed to changing the drum effect of sheet metal by adding weight.
(Stick on deadener). No need to cover every square inch. Unless heat/cold is an issue then different story.
Adding it in certain areas will change (better) the drum(speaker) effect.
I've not proven this myself so take it for what its worth. Does make sence. To me anyway.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - The Spirit Of Rolling - 04-11-2012 11:22 AM

Some time ago, there was a guy that would sell the 36ft sq box of dynamat xtreme on ebay for $129, shipped. WELL worth it IMO. I would look now, but ebay is blocked here at work.

I installed two boxes on my GTI, and the difference was remarkable. I would love to do it to my 245, but rust is eating it away... runaway

If anyone looks, pls confirm it is still available.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - volvogeek - 04-12-2012 05:43 AM

(04-11-2012 11:22 AM)The Spirit Of Rolling Wrote:  Some time ago, there was a guy that would sell the 36ft sq box of dynamat xtreme on ebay for $129, shipped. WELL worth it IMO. I would look now, but ebay is blocked here at work.

I installed two boxes on my GTI, and the difference was remarkable. I would love to do it to my 245, but rust is eating it away... runaway

If anyone looks, pls confirm it is still available.

It's a little more expensive now. $129 shipped for 32ftsq, $144 shipped for 36ftsq.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - The Spirit Of Rolling - 04-13-2012 09:45 PM

Very good! Still a good deal, considering the first box I bought was $250.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - 245Mike - 07-14-2013 02:12 PM

I'm in the middle of deadening my 245 with Raamat. Its the older stuff that came in rolls. Its working nicely! If you are not affraid of taking down the headliner, do the roof too.


RE: Sound deadening? (adding more, not removing) - 245Mike - 07-14-2013 02:14 PM

Damn I'm slow. I just noticed who the OP is!! Call me or something, Stereo stuff is kinda my thing Man!